Deciding at a Scottsdale counter? In the ramen vs pho choice, take pho for flat rice noodles, beef and fresh herbs, and take ramen for wheat noodles in a richer, saltier broth.
The sections below compare the bowls by noodle, broth and garnish, then add udon and tsukemen. For the wider picture of how a Japanese noodle counter works, start with our main ramen shop guide.
Criteria that decide the order
A noodle soup is easiest to choose when you rank what matters to you before reading the menu. These steps work for any bowl, and the later sections fill in the detail for each one.
- Choose the noodle. Wheat with kansui means ramen, wheat without kansui means udon, and rice noodles mean pho. This single filter also settles whether the bowl contains wheat.
- Decide how rich you want the broth. Some broths are heavy and creamy from dissolved bone collagen, while others are built on spice and aroma.
- Check who does the seasoning. In some bowls the kitchen sets the salt level, and in others the diner finishes the flavour at the table.
- Look at the garnishes. Toppings that sit in the bowl give a different meal from a plate of herbs you add yourself.
- Pick the serving style. Noodles in hot soup and noodles dipped into a separate broth eat very differently.
Ramen and pho side by side
Pho is a rice-noodle soup, while ramen uses wheat noodles made with kansui. That is the main difference between ramen and pho, and the table shows how it carries through to broth, simmer time and garnish.
| Criterion | Ramen | Pho | Planning use |
|---|---|---|---|
| Noodles | Wheat flour, water, salt and kansui | Flat, white, smooth rice noodles made from rice flour and water | Wheat versus rice is the first filter for texture and for dietary needs. |
| Broth styles | Four main types: shio, shoyu, miso and tonkotsu | Broth perfumed with star anise, clove and cinnamon | Ask which ramen broth a bowl uses. In pho, the spice aroma is the defining note. |
| Typical simmer | Tonkotsu pork bones are boiled for 12 or more hours until the bone collagen dissolves | Broth can take 6–10 hours to perfect, with few ingredients | Both are long-cooked. Tonkotsu is the longer and heavier of the two. |
| Standard garnishes | Pork, boiled egg, scallions and nori | Thai basil, cilantro, bean sprouts, lime, chili, hoisin and sriracha | Ramen toppings define the bowl, while pho leaves room to adjust at the table. |
Ingredients and ramen details come from JapanCentric’s ramen guide, and the pho details and comparison points come from a restaurant’s pho versus ramen comparison.
Noodles: wheat, kansui and rice
Ramen noodles
Ramen noodles are made from wheat flour, water, salt and kansui, according to JapanCentric. Kansui is an alkaline water that contains sodium carbonate and potassium carbonate, and it is the ingredient that separates ramen noodles from other wheat noodles. If you want the chewy, springy wheat noodle that most ramen shops are known for, this is the bowl to order.
Pho rice noodles
Pho exclusively uses flat rice noodles, which are made from rice flour and water. The result is a smooth, white ribbon that carries a lighter, more aromatic broth than a wheat noodle usually does. Choose pho when you want a bowl that is built around rice noodles.
Udon and the difference from ramen
The difference between ramen and udon comes down to kansui. Udon is also made from wheat flour, but it doesn’t contain kansui, so it does not share the alkaline character of a ramen noodle. Udon suits diners who want a Japanese wheat noodle without the kansui note of ramen.
Wheat matters for anyone who has to avoid it. Both ramen and udon noodles start from wheat flour, so read our guide to ramen allergens before ordering, and ask about the rest of the bowl as well, since the noodle is only one ingredient.
Broth: tonkotsu, other ramen styles and pho
Ramen broths
There are four main types of ramen: shio, shoyu, miso and tonkotsu. Tonkotsu is the heaviest. It is made from pork bones boiled for 12 or more hours until the collagen dissolves, which gives a broth that is heavy and creamy. It is most popular around Kyushu, per JapanCentric.
The Institute of Culinary Education describes the same process: the first water is replaced with fresh water, and the bones are boiled for 12 hours to emulsify fat and marrow. A restaurant comparison notes that a rich tonkotsu may simmer for 18 hours, so treat 12 hours as a common baseline rather than a ceiling. Ramen broth in general usually cooks overnight.
Ramen is seasoned differently from pho. The standard procedure is to use a liquid seasoning, called tare, added to the broth at assembly. The restaurant comparison links the high salt of ramen to tare, soy sauce and seasoning oil.
Pho broth
Pho is traditionally made with beef knuckles, a charred onion, roasted ginger, Saigon cinnamon, star anise and other spices, as described by the Institute of Culinary Education. A restaurant comparison says star anise, clove and cinnamon perfume the broth, and that it can take 6–10 hours to perfect while using few ingredients. Star anise is the aroma most diners pick out first.
Pho broth is lightly seasoned in the pot, and the flavour is adjusted at the table rather than in the kitchen, according to the same comparison. This is why pho suits diners who want to control salt and heat themselves, while a tonkotsu bowl suits those who want the kitchen to deliver a rich, finished flavour.
Garnishes and how the bowl arrives
Ramen toppings are typically pork, boiled egg, scallions and nori, according to JapanCentric. They are part of the bowl, so the meal arrives largely finished.
Pho is different. It is usually accompanied by a plate of fresh herbs, bean sprouts and sliced jalapeño peppers, with lime on the side. Another comparison lists Thai basil, cilantro, bean sprouts, lime, chili, hoisin and sriracha as the standard additions. Pho rewards diners who like to add heat, acid and herbs bite by bite.
Tsukemen: the dipping alternative
Tsukemen changes the serving style rather than the noodle idea. The noodles come on a plate and the broth arrives in a separate bowl for dipping, instead of the noodles sitting in hot soup. Choose it when you want to control how much broth each mouthful gets. The guide to what is tsukemen covers the style in detail.
Which bowl to order first in Scottsdale
A first-time diner should match the bowl to the flavour they want. Menus differ from restaurant to restaurant, so check which broth and noodle each bowl uses before ordering. As a restaurant guide puts it, for rice noodles, beef and fresh herbs, choose the pho, and for a rich pork broth, choose tonkotsu.
- Choose pho if you want rice noodles, aromatic spice and the freedom to season at the table.
- Choose tonkotsu ramen if you want the heavy, creamy pork broth and chewy kansui noodles, and you are happy for the kitchen to season the bowl.
- Choose udon if you want a wheat noodle without kansui.
- Choose tsukemen if you prefer noodles and broth served apart.
If you cannot decide between ramen and pho, pho is the gentler starting point because the broth is lightly seasoned and adjustable, and ramen is the better second visit once you know how rich a broth you enjoy.
Frequently asked questions
| Question | Answer |
|---|---|
| Is pho or ramen lighter on calories and salt? | A restaurant comparison puts a traditional beef pho bowl at 350–500 calories and ramen at 600 to 1,100+ calories. Per 16 oz serving, it estimates about 900–1,200 mg of sodium for pho and about 1,500–2,500 mg for ramen. Pho is the lighter pick on both counts, though individual bowls vary. |
| How old are ramen and pho? | According to the same comparison, ramen appeared in the late 19th century as a Chinese import of wheat noodles in broth, and it took off after post-World War II urbanization. Pho emerged in northern Vietnam in the early 20th century. |
| When was instant ramen invented? | JapanCentric says instant noodles were first created in 1958 by Momofuku Ando of Nissin Foods. |
